!The Indian team for the West Indies
Mahendra Singh Dhoni (Captain), Yuvraj Singh [ Images ] (vice-captain), Gautam Gambhir [ Images ], Rohit Sharma [ Images ], Harbhajan Singh [ Images ], Pragyan Ojha [ Images ], Yusuf Pathan [ Images ], Murali Vijay, S Badrinath, RP Singh [ Images ], Praveen Kumar [ Images ], Ishant Sharma [ Images ], Abhishek Nayar, Ashish Nehra, Ravindra Jadeja [ Images ], Dinesh Karthik [ Images ].
Ishant could probably have been rested and Munaf drafted in. Also, I would have liked to see Virat Kohli have a go ahead of either Murali Vijay or Badri.
That said, a fairly balanced side. Go well!
Wednesday, June 17, 2009
Not bad
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
38 comments:
Murali is an opener. I doubt whether Kohli can open.
Ott,
Neither can Rohit, atleast in the 50 over version of the game.
So the assumption is that Gambhir and Vijay will open and the middle order will sort itself?
Cheers,
Murali Vijay and Badri in an ODI team? Does that make sense?
Homer, this time if Sam says regional bias, I guess we have to agree! Kris Srikkanth has finally delivered for TN :-)
This is an historic occasion - as the first time TN gets an unusual number of reps in the national team with 2 of them questionalbe choices. Never thought that would happen in my lifetime.
I guess none of them will come back with a good reputation - I am pretty sure Badri's international career will end after the WI ODI tour, and ironically, he'll lose out on a test spot because of this ODI tour.
M Vijay - he is not a limited overs player! His career is going to stall
Dinesh Karthik- I fear Sam might get his wish true and dance on the remains of him after this tour.
Q,
Vijay as a stand in opener makes sense.. But both together reeks of bias.
Cheers,
Pandey and Kohli would have been better choices for the ODI squad. No doubts.
Raj,
Historic indeed.. When was the last time a Tam set up fellow Tams for failure :)
And what was N Srinivasan's role in the whole deal?
Cheers,
Not sure about Manish Pandey Vijay Kumar. The kid has yet to play for the A team.
Kohli would have been on my team but then again, the selectors probably wanted to avoid another Badri whinge in the media :)
Cheers,
Regional bias???? Why the hell does everyone want to talk about regional bias despite the fact that some of these guys picked have come from strong domestic performances.
I mean come on... Why don't people have a good look at Rohit Sharma and Ishanth Sharma's record in the limited versions of cricket... certainly it has to be a joke considering there was another sharma in reckoning by the name of Joginder. Is this the era of the sharma's in India?
Despite how good a Rohit looks... 25 odd matches have been handed to him and he has shat upon them all in terms of performances. For once, give these guys who have been picked south or not a decent run of 25 matches and then take a call of whether they are worth it or not.
The real crap in its purity lies in Dhoni's own bias towards these two guys and they have no chance in their lifetime to be given a real opportunity. Was not the IPL a great example of the same. This dude is soon become a 2.0 version of Ganguly in his fame.
As they say Speak hindi or die.
Scorpi,
Simle question - justify Badri's place in the side?
Vijay as a back up opener, Karthik as the back up keeper, Badri as what?
And if form is the criterion, why not Virat Kohli? The kid can hook too...
As far as Ishant and Rohit go - drop them. I have already made the point that I would have liked Munaf in ther. And the only reason Rohit is on the team sheet is because they consider him an opener.
25 matches is fine my friend, but how do you justify the presence of players in the squad when there are more inform players on the sidelines?
Cheers,
Homer,
In case you missed, TN were the Ranji ODI champions for the year and Badri played his role in it. If I remember right, Badri is in the list of contracter players as well and hence when a Raina gets injured, Badri gets a look in.
Karthik hasn't been picked - he was in the team to NZ and hence has been retained.
Prabu,
But Badri wasnt. And his form has been up and down in the IPL.
The other point is - is Badri or Virat the guy who has a better shot at the WC?
Cheers,
So
Badri finally questioned. Yeah it sounds just. Very well. few 20s, few 10s and a few 0-9s in ODIs and the chap is in the team.
but then good choice. he would fail and shut the mouth of ppl wanting him to be in the team for whatever domestic strong performance they cite.
And Virat Kohli has opened for India in SL-08 when Sehwag was injured. He did it with decent success, though his SR wasnt IPLsque, but he was a better openeing bat than Rohit Sharma.
Lets accept Ishanth(h) Sharma isnt a ODi/T20 material. Good for tests.
Rohit Sharma gets another chance. And if he doesnt deliver this time, then consider it done. As in his career end and done.
Prabhu : when did badri last played an innings of substance in ODIs or IPL except one 28* in 2nd ODI in Lanka and 50 odd this IPL ? And if you talk domestic cricket, then there are many who have played better than this bloke.
scorpi, explain how ganguly comes in to picture here?
But Badri ever get a good chance in IPL. Dhoni kept on changing his batting position.
"But Badri wasnt. And his form has been up and down in the IPL."
monor correction homer...his batting order rather than form was up and down in ipl...courtesy dhoni who dint let him settle into one position...
Virat Kohli had a tremendous season in the List A matches in 08-09 season. If domestic performance is the only criteria then Kohli wins over others hands down!
And since when we started needing specialist openers in ODI? Sachin, Saurav..who was specialist opener?
"his batting order rather than form was up and down in ipl...courtesy dhoni who dint let him settle into one position..."
And why should a player be so limited skilled that he needed a fixed spot to deliver? A player has to be ready to bat at any spot.
Homer,
I am with you and the others on Kohli being picked. He is also one who has strong domestic performances and needs to be tried out longer.
On Badri, he has been a prolific scorer for many seasons and has not got a proper opportunity. It is important that we find out whether he remains a domestic bully or is actually good enough at this level.
For that he needs opportunities... proper ones at batting order positions that go hand in hand with the nature of the player that he is. Number 3 is what I am talking about.
M.Vijay's selection is a bit debatable, unless they are hell bent on having a proper opener at the top. Either way, he is definitely a temp solution, until Sehwag is back.
As for inform players on the sidelines, who are those players in form? Kohli too had a disappointing IPL perhaps even worse than Badri's.
Nayar, jadeja are in and only pujara who is injured has not been featured.
There is no point picking Badri only for the captain to slot him at number 7, which is ridiculous.
As for the bowling, personally am not too keen on Munaf, as his attitude is just plain crazy and his form is lukewarm to cold. Might as well see what Nehra can offer.
Anon,
Badri questioned? For what? You talk as though he had ample opportunities which were all squandered.
Bhaiya, he has played ONLY 3 ODI matches for India. That's it!!! That too batting at number 7!!
Kohli made his debut in that series and he got to open and play up the order. There is a huge difference.
Both Kohli and badri has to be given opportunities.
The point about badri or Kohli is that none of us know whether they are good or not at this level. Surely 3 matches for Badri and 5 odd matches for Kohli cannot be a benchmark to judge any player.
That is why it is funny when people talk about regional bias, when there is nothing to benchmark that against in terms of opportunities.
Scorpi,
We all know who that Anon is. He is a ball-less fellow who handles others' balls in his hands. Since he's been shamed into admitting his ignorance, he posts on My2C as anon or other names. Don't bother about him too much. He's the same guy that said Bhagwat Chandra and Prasanna belonged to TN....
Alright, time for a healthy debate. I will address all the questions in favour.
I am one of those who believe both virat and badri needs to be given a chance. However, the overwhelming majority thinks Badri doesn't deserve a place and Kohli as to be in for Badri. My take is that Badri was in waiting earlier and he gets the line first. Besides, he has indeed done better than Kohli.
Anon's question:
when did badri last played an innings of substance in ODIs or IPL except one 28* in 2nd ODI in Lanka and 50 odd this IPL ? And if you talk domestic cricket, then there are many who have played better than this bloke.
Were you guys sleeping in this IPL when Badri scored a match winning fifty. Now isn't that an innings of substance under difficult circumstances?
What is for you to see is the batting order. When he has been sent in early up the order, he has shown signs of being a player of substance.
Why don't you now show me some innings of substance of a number 7 batsmen as an example, so that we can compare an apple?
Or best, why don't you show me Virat Kohli's substantial innings in this IPL?
Here is the record of both these guys
Badrinath: IPL
30 Matches played 22 innings 7not outs 369runs Average 24.6 Strike rate: 125.51
Virat Kohli
29 matches 25 innings 3 not outs 411 runs average 18.68 strike rate: 109.31
Frankly, both players records are quite rubbish. Kohli still loses.
As far as a player who has a better record than badri, why don't you name that player here please. Please name those who have consistently done well in the last 4 years. Am waiting.
Chandan question: Virat Kohli had a tremendous season in the List A matches in 08-09 season. If domestic performance is the only criteria then Kohli wins over others hands down!
Badrinath has been the captain of the list A team for a long time. If you want to compare List A matches as an important criteria, surely you cannot ignore Badri's record
89 Matches 81Innings 13NO 2775Runs 134HS 40.80AV
An average of 40 while playing close to 89 matches at this level. Your call.
Ranji: 2005-06 636 runs@ av.80
2006-07 436 runs@ av.50
2007 - Top run getter in the A-list tours
2007-08 - 659 runs@av.65.90
First class record: 75m 109inn 14 no 5452runs av:57.38
Virat Kohli's record:
First class: 21M 29Inn 4No 1243runs HS197 Av49.72
List-A: 26M 25Inn 3NO 1090RUNS 124 HS AV:49.54
Sorry folks... badri wins hands down for consistently performing in the last few years. Kohli has been very good. But badri has to be rewarded first.
Chandan's next question:
And why should a player be so limited skilled that he needed a fixed spot to deliver? A player has to be ready to bat at any spot.
Is Badri complaining? Here you are comparing his record being poor but ignore the fact that he comes in late in the order, where opportunities to make big runs are limited. Show me then a good number 7 record or Kohli's record at the IPL. Even here, badri betters Kohli in terms of the IPL stats.
Sorry...Badri wins again! :)
Gents,
My point is a simple one - in isolation, you can justify the selections of both Murali Vijay and Subramanian Badrinath. Taken together, with Kohli not even in consideration, smacks of parochialism.
Is it biased towards TN? Is it biased towards the Soopher Kinks? Either ways, the brand ambassador and the owner of the Soopher Kinks have to answer a few questions.
Cheers,
Homer, with you on that. But I'll take a bias towards TN for once, after several years of bias towards elsewhere. Basically, i mentioned it earlier - these are marginal calls - if Virat had been selected, Badri supporters would be fuming and questioning. There is nothing much to choose one over the other and there are no other choices as well with Che out injured. Manoj Tiwary and Shikar Dhawan have regressed. The former is into film production now apparently
I guess if NS can influence CSK players' selection, so can Bindra or Modi ensure Punjab or Rajasthan players selection - then again there is no borderline case in these 2 teams to be selected, thats the problem. So, basically, at worst, a borderline case(Badri/Vijay) has been brought into the team over another borderline case(Virat). Nothing to really make a big deal here - and you have rightly said the same thing in your post as well.
It is not as blatant a bias as getting a Noel David fly over to replace Javagal Srinath!
Once Sachin and Sehwag are in, the discussion over Kohli or Badri would fizz out.
So guys take a chill pill.
Let me throw this angle up. The debate can be on M.Vijay sure enough. Perhaps the selectors have done this in terms of sheer logistics.
WI is quite far off and travel times, connectivity are huge. In all probability, they have picked Vijay as a back-up opener in line with his place for the test series.
If the poster boy of Dhoni's campaign, the ultimate talisman for Indian t-20 cricket :), joginder sharma was left out for the Australian tour since it did not make sense to have him for a match, the same perhaps has happened here.
Vijay is not likely to get a place in the odi 11, but is there as a back-up and can continue to remain in the squad for the test series.
Or is this way too far fetched :)?
2) On another note, is vijay the best opener in domestic cricket or are there other names who have performed well. Maybe that will throw some light.
3) I will agree it is biased if an Ashwin got picked!!! LOL. And why even the talisman Joginder Sharma, a sooper kink by himself.
If their plan is to continue with Sharma as the opener, then some of the reasons above will apply. There is then no role for Kohli in the middle, until someone really fails.
As for badri, the only way this debate can end (And I hope too coz I myself wanna know) is by perhaps not benching him and play him for all the ODIs at number 3. That will settle or show some direction on whether it is worth investing in him.
Scorpi...
only problem is that there is no test series...
What!!!! Boy o boy... then there is something cooking.
Scorpicity:
There is nothing cooking. IMHO Rohit seems to be very lucky to hang on to his place - a guy whose highest ODI score is 70 and has an average of 27.20; first class performance 1923 runs @49.30 with 5 centuries in 42 innings. People should question his continued selection. Badri does deserve to be there - look at his record in first class 109 innings 5452 @57.38 and 19 centuries. So much experience and class. There is no TN bias - it's just that MSD doesn't use him properly in IPL.So those who say Badri doesn't deserve just shut up. We put guys on a pedestal as soon as somene performs in one season and then wonder when they fail in subsequent seasons - fame comes quickly and people have short memory. Ishant is going that way unless he does something soon; Irfan not long ago. Where is Sreesanth? Lots of names to include here. We need to look for guys who perform over a long period of time, select them and give them enough chances at the International level before ditching them. remember Atapattu?
Anon... For the moment, it is tough to knock off Badri, as he indeed has put in the yards in the domestic circuit better than the rest.
Now it is a question of giving him opportunities and then see if he is worth playing for this level or not. So Badri's selection seems fine.
If a test series is not being played, having Vijay in the squad does indeed raise a few eyebrows. Vijay certainly has not been among the top performers, unless of course the idea here is to pick the best performing proper opener in India.
If it is a choice between Kohli and Vijay in the shorter format, then Kohli deserves a place over Vijay.
I will have a look at the numbers if available in comparison with all the openers in India. Maybe that will throw some logical answers on his selection.
BTW, why are we not playing a test series against the windies. It completely takes the flavour out of the tour.
Cheers guys
Anonymous,
Badri is a shoo in for a Test spot but does he fit inthe medium or long term pland in the ODI scene?
Also, if Vijay comes in as opener, and Karthik being present in the team, you have cover for both openers. If Sharma has to slide down to the middle order, how are they going to fit everyone in?
Its a 4 ODI set and its more than likely that either Vijay or Badri will warm the bench for all four.
The least Kris Srikkanth can do is explain the logic behind these selections - the selectors are paid on a full time basis now.
Thanks for your comments and welcome to the blog.
Cheers,
Homer, more I think about it more it pans out like this - they
It is Dhoni's defeat that has enabled this selection - if he had won the cup, there is no way Dhoni will accept this squad. he'll rebel. unfortunately, his wings have been cut now. This happens to everyone, though, and now is the time when Dhoni will be truly tested. I do think N Srinivasan has pushed a few buttons - while as I said I am happy a few undeserving TN batsmen are finally getting a go which is a first for Indian Cricket, it is fundamentally as despicable as the previous biased selections in favour of Mumbai, Delhi or Karnataka.
Raj,
Kris Srikkant's revenge for Aniruddha being sent back before IPL 2?
Cheers,
I feel Vijay would open with Gambhir than Rohit doing it. RS is a flawed selection in the team despite his continued failures.
Badri wont get a place in the final XI as long as somebody is too badly injured to play.
After all if Badri comes in at 4 or 5 or 6 can he match Yuvraj if latter injures? or even can he play helicopter shots like MSD ? or can he improvise like RD did in his ODI days @ 5.
Can he improvise ? Can he play attacking innings and can he play as a finisher?
What capacity is Badri bhai doing in the team ? Nothing. He could be a good Test player, but he is not even worthy a place in A team.
Out of the 3 Tammis i can see M Vijay getting a game. Thank God Kris didnt plant his own son in the team.
Just that few decades back players from Mumbai or Delhi or Karnataka played on quota, does that mean some players with no balls to play for India now in age when quality matters more than origin?
poor logic. Absurd.
And those who call selections from Mumbai absurd, let me tell those guys the team has given some huge players to the country -- Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Vengsarkar, Shastri, V Manjrekar and stuff.
Agarkar could be a candidate for Bombay duck. Lets not forget the kadhi bhau has a century in Lord's and is 3rd highest wicket taker for India in ODIs.
It is the case of people & posters from South India and Mumbai feeling more comfortable with players like Badrinath, Murali Vijay, Balaji, Dinesh Karthik, Ojha, Dravid, Jaffer, Venugoppal Rao, Rohit Sharma, Manish Pandey, Rahane, Kulkarni, etc, etc, etc. We can almost smell jeolosy, indignation, etc.
We talk of corruption in Indian Politics.. this then is just politics, corruption and stupidity. It seems the choice of the Chief selector is crucial..
Perhaps it is best if Indian team was split into two. Keep SZ and Mumbai away from the rest of India!!!!
Issacn
IssacN,
Could it be that people make the argument because they are familiar with players from their region?
Also, no one here is making blanket arguments - the discussion is about a couple of spots, both of which do not make cricketing sense when taken in their entirety.
Cheers,
The "common man" or garden-variety posters are of little consequence. The "Babus" are at the very top. The common refrain is echoed by Sunil Gavaskar's, "TN players are discriminated" - but was it during Sunny time & in his captaincy? Surely, not!! It's not the case with DK and LB in recent times - both miserable failures. Check Balaji's ER to confirm the point in ODIs. Check DK if any one really cared that is. Ha! Ha! Ha!
The "jealosy and indignation" I speak of is not new - Kaif v Laxman - but became too obvious as North Indians started to "outclass" the status quo/ failures of previous generations. It's like if he can do why can't our players do it.. as per Mr Badrinath, "I'm lke Mr Michael Hussey .. please give me a chance to fail."
Even Shastri (during Eng ODIs last year) was at it when he said, "Rohit is happy to take the single even though there is a rivalry betwen the two .. ie. Raina and Rohit". What exactly had Rohit done to be considered a "rival" to anyone!! Anyway, I'm told Rohit has GREAT TALENT - a great technique ala Sunny Gavaskar. (Sunny has written that he could play "exciting" cricket like Rohit Sharma, and by corollary, Rohit can play Test cricket like Sunny).
This technique ... is something shared ONLY by Dravid, Sachin and is now in possession of Messrs. Badrinath, M Vijay, D Karthik, Rahane and Mukund!!! (Gambhir gets an honorable mention... but that is not the same as Dravid, who can live on technique alone!!)
A well-known Mumbaikar (part of Indian domestic set-up) has written about "over-aged players" in UP- without any justification.
Why was Badrinath given a Grade B contract, with a sum of 3 matches, an average of 19 and SR <50 .. IIRC? My earlier remark should explain why Badri is a "great exception", but I ask for completeness... Did he look a "CLASS" above Virat Kohli in SL ODIs. (Remember this "CLASS" was not good enough for Badrinath to be selected above Messrs. R Uthappa and D Karthik but became imperative only after no SZ batsman was selected in the SL squad!!)
How is Dinesh Karthik different from Mr Agarkar, in the no. of unsuccessful recalls? Has any Indian player (last 10 years) been as bad as Venugoppal Rao or R Uthappa? With the best will in the world, the Chief Selctor had to look somewhere else. But, how the previous selectors feel "inspired" to pick these duds in the first place? What is Nayar's List A averages? .. IIRC his performances in India A were pathetic.
I'm told the forthcoming ODIs don't matter... wish that was the case for other ODIs series/ T20 WC ...
I shall end now.. Issacn
Post a Comment